SUBJECT: Minutes, January 31, 1994 System Governance Council

(38 pages)

University of Alaska

System Governance Council

Videoconference meeting

Monday, January 31, 1994, beginning at 9:00am

Sites:

Fairbanks campus - Carter Conference Room, Butrovich Bldg

Anchorage campus - Videoconference room, University Lake Bldg

Juneau campus - Library Conference Room

Minutes

1. Call to order and roll call

Voting members:

Donna Chantry, Chair, System Governance Council; President,

General Assembly; President, UAS Assembly; Member, Staff

Alliance

John Dede, President, UAA Assembly; President, UAA APT Council;

Member, Staff Alliance

Karen Enochs, representative and past president, UAF Staff Council;

Member, Staff Alliance

David Spell, President, UAF Faculty Senate; Member, Alliance of

Faculty Senates

Brian Brubaker, representative, Associated Students of the University

of Alaska Fairbanks; coordinator, Coalition of Student Leaders

John d'Armand, President, UAS Faculty Senate; Member, Alliance of

Faculty Senates

Chris Delez, President, United Students of the University of Alaska

Southeast-Juneau; member, Coalition of Student Leaders

Bonnie Williams, Chair, Staff Alliance, President, Statewide

Administration Assembly

Colin Read, Spokesperson, Alliance of Faculty Senates; President- elect,

UAF Faculty Senate

Pat Ivey, Executive Officer, System Governance

Jeannine Phillips, Admin. Assistant, System Governance

Sharon Gagnon, President, UA Board of Regents

Eric Forrer, Member, UA Board of Regents (tentative)

Alison Algee, Director, UA Statewide Budget Office

Jan Henderson, UAA Governance Office

Absent:

Toni Croft, President, UAA Faculty Senate; Vice President, UAA

Assembly; Member, Alliance of Faculty Senates

Kevin Gallagher, President, Union of Students of the University of

Alaska Anchorage; Member, Coalition of Student Leaders

2. Adopt agenda

DRAFT MOTION: Moved by Williams, seconded by Enochs,

motion passed

The System Governance Council moves to adopt the agenda for

the January 31, 1994 meeting as amended. This action is

effective January 31, 1994."

3. Round table discussion

a. Regents' perspective on declining revenues and impacts

on the university and on governance

Sharon Gagnon, President, UA Board of Regents

I think that when we talk about declining revenues, we probably should talk

first in terms of assumptions. I believe one assumption that we can draw

fairly safely is that the legislature and the governor are generally supportive

of the university. Of course, the university budget represents a very large

amount of money which does mean it could be a target for cuts, but I don't

have the sense that there is a lack of support for the university. The governor

has in recent years shown that he is not willing to cut the university but

would like for it to maintain its effort and to grow as possible. So we are

going into a situation that could be much worse in terms of how the state

government is perceiving us. I think we need to maintain our positive image

with the legislature by being very responsive and very accountable in how

we use our funds.

The second assumption I think we can all agree on is that we don't expect an

increase in funding this year, and can't foresee one down the line, so we are

going to have to continue to try to address the increase in enrollment and

expectations of what the university can do for the state with no more money.

The third assumption is that there will be increasing enrollments.

The fourth assumption is that the regents and the administration and the

faculty, staff and students are going to have to work together very closely to

use the funding we do have effeciently and equitably. This is not going to be

a situation where one group, whether it is the regents or administration, or an

individual administration says this is how it is going to be. We are going to

have to think together in order to accomplish our mission and be sure that

the students are served properly.

To do this, the fifth assumption is that these groups are going to have to have

very good information on the current use of resources in the university; that

is on the administrative structure, on the workload, and on allocation of

resources throughout the system.

Given those assumptions, which I have formulated in my own mind, what

would our approaches be for stretching the resources that we will have?

First of all, I think we need to look for real dollar savings; that is to find

areas where we can actually save money. How we arrive at that, again, is

going to have to be a joint effort, seeking ways we can look at this together.

You have good ideas on the subject, I am sure. Some that have occurred to

all of us I think is, for example, is establishing guidelines for departments

and schools. If we are going to have a department within the University of

Alaska, it has to satisfy certain guidelines. For example, there must be a

critical mass of students to have a department. This sort of guideline might

save some money in how we arrange ourselves within the university.

I think the president has already begun working toward creating a task force

with administrators, faculty and staff to recommend by late spring of this

year, other kinds of cost savings, both large and small. I think this has been

effectively used in businesses and other universities and I think even in this

system during the restructuring, that this is a technique that was used.

We are going to have to look at ways to increase productivity. That stands

to reason if we have less money and more students, we are going to have to

be able to serve them better with less money, or at least serve them with less

money and that is going to require increases in productivity, again, coming

from you who are producers in this whole scheme of things.

We are also going to have to develop a systemwide approach to delivering

education. This will include some of the distance and alternative methods of

education under discussion. It's going to also require a new way of thinking

about how we can work together systemwide to serve the students with less

money.

I can tell you some of the things that I don't feel are under consideration

right now on the Board of Regents. I don't believe that the regents are

interested in across-the-board cuts to the university. What we are more

interested in is how, together, we can find ways to do things better and not

look at it in terms of how we lose in this but how we can rearrange ourselves

to do things better.

I also don't believe, or at least have heard no discussions that lead me to

believe, that the regents are interested in shutting any particular campus

down. I think that we want to maintain our current efforts as long as we can

and, again, are looking for alternative methods for doing what we feel needs

to be done.

Given those assumptions and approaches, I think what is required of all of us

now is inventiveness and creativity and an extreme amount of good will

through all of this, and a feeling of unity; that no part of the university is

saying that we need to get rid of another part and that will solve our

problems, but rather, how can we all work together.

I read a quotation recently, "When patterns are broken, new worlds can

emerge." That is exactly the situation we are in now. We are going to have

to think of new ways to do things.

Eric Forrer, Member, UA Board of Regents

I do not disagree with anything that President Gagnon said. My second

point is that I had a conversation with a reporter from Fairbanks. She said

she had talked with five regents and they were all talking about a solid

Board; that the feeling coming out of the Board of Regents is that there is no

split within the Board and members are all in considerable agreement. I

agreed with that feeling and I think we are all talking about it because it's not

something that you would ordinarily get, and it feels good for a change to

have a Board that's not split.

I think we are in a position to do some things that maybe we ordinarily

wouldn't be able to do because there aren't splits on the Board. We are

delightfully non-regional. Virtually every member of the Board has taken a

system perspective.

Another point I would like to make is that when the regents' budget came out

at the Anchorage meeting in August, and there was guite a bit of

conversation about what sort of tactic would this budget represent. Would

we ask for more than we knew we could get, or would we ask for what we

thought we could get? The feeling there and the message that we wished to

send is that the regents' budget is not a part of gamesmanship. It is a

statement from the regents to the state and the legislature as to what the

regents think the university needs, and any modifications to it have to be the

result of the feelings and actions of the legislature and the people of the state

of Alaska who will be modifying a document which has genuine numbers in

it reflecting

genuine needs. There is no piece of that buget that is put in with ulterior

motives. It is a document to be read on its face as a valid document.

I don't have any particular insights as to what the legislature may do to the

university but student numbers are going up, credit hours delivered are going

up, the need for university services are going up and there is as yet, no direct

connection between the population of the state and the state's income. As oil

revenues decline, that situation will have to change in some way.

I'm quite optimistic from an institutional point of view. That does not mean

that there won't be some shakeups, but institutionally, I believe that the

university has solid support in the legislature and is widely recognized

across the state as a truly valuable, and in my opinon, the most valuable,

institution the state has.

I live in a world where I drink risk every morning with my orange juice. I'm

not upset by change and I'm not particularly frightened of a little turmoil. It

usually ends up with the situation getting better in some way, so I'm quite

optimistic.

b. The legislature and the UA budget - Alison Algee

So far, the legislature has been relatively quiet, although we have had an

opportunity to have a couple of meetings with the House Finance

Subcommittee, and last week the president spoke to the full Senate Finance

Committee.

I think the legislature in general is very supportive of the university and I

think they are very pleased that the regents are taking the initiatives that they

are, to look at resource allocation, to try to increase productivity and to

continue to further the efforts of instructional delivery. The president spoke

to those initiatives in the hearings and got a very positive reception from the

legislators that heard those statements.

Part of the reason things have been so quiet is that legislators are in a

holding pattern waiting to see what the courts will do about the expenditure

of the oil settlement monies. Now that the courts have ruled on that

particular issue, finding that the legislature did illegally appropriate the

funds, there is going to have to be some corrective action. That will

probably be the major topic of the legislative session for the next two or

three weeks, before moving on to deal with the spending patterns for FY95.

I think that it is unrealistic to believe that we are going to come out of this

legislative session with increased resources, although it is not impossible.

The combination of events that will help the legislature put this budget

together are going to require a variety of things. Legislators are going to be

looking at budget cuts. They are going to be looking at the use of some

reserves. They may be looking at some tax measures and the governor has

proposed a few.

In that combination of things, any outcome is possible but the most realistic

outcome for the university is to sustain the level of funding that the governor

has proposed, which is a general fund support level equal to FY94.

We are also preparing a presentation for the February Board meeting about

the impacts of reallocations over the last two or three years and what the

university has gone through already in terms of trying to find additional

efficiencies and changes they have had to make to accommodate the reduced

revenues.

This is important primarily because the legislature, having given the

university increased funding, is not really aware that there has already been

the necessity to make some changes in the way we do business. We are

hopeful that this will be a tool that will help us in addressing concerns that

the legislature has during the hearing process on the university budget.

We can certainly use the help of all the people within the university in

working with the legislature, but I ask that if people are contacting

legislators that Wendy Redman and myself are contacted. It's very

disconcerting to discover you are tripping over other university people and

certainly don't want To be in the position of contradicting things people are

saying. Our number is 463-3086.

c. Questions and answers

John Dede:

If the university will stay in a holding pattern concerning its general fund

budget, do you think it is in a better position concerning the additional land

grant bill that is currently in the legislature?

Alyson Algee

We are making efforts in that direction. There was a hearing on the land

grant bill last week in the Senate HESS Committee and I think that we may

be able to move that bill along. Unfortunately, the effective date on that bill

is tied up with the mental health lawsuit and until those lands issues are

settled, even should this legislation pass, would not immediately see any

additional land put into the land grant trust.

John Dede:

Are there any legislators opposed to the land grant bill that might require

some additional persuasion.

Alyson Algee

At this time I don't think the bill has received enough attention to identify

who

might be opposed. We will pass information along to the Council as well as

other governance groups about anything that could be done to assist that bill

through the process.

Sharon Gagnon

Eric and I have given our perspective on how we think things are and what

needs to happen. I am wondering if the people who listened to us have any

perspective that varies widely from what we said. We need to know about

that

and need to find out where our points of perspective meet.

Bonnie Williams

I like the assumptions, except for one. I believe that we start at a

disadvantage compared to all but two state agencies. In the governor's

budget, the university is at zero in terms of increases. The state agency

budgets for community affairs and for military and veterans affairs went

down. Military affairs has a very tiny budget, so the reduction in terms of

dollars is negligible. Community affairs budget went down because the

municipal assistance and revenue sharing pass throughs to municipalities

were reduced. All the other state agency budgets started at a plus from

FY94.

When the legislature looks at these budgets and thinks about cutting, they

are likely to cut them back to zero percent over FY94. When they look at us

and we are starting at zero, they will cut us below our current year budget. I

find that not positive, but negative.

Alison Algee:

Most of the agency budgets went up because of the formula programs

contained within them. There was very little growth in agencies. If you

divide

their budgets into formula and operations, there is very little growth in

operations with a couple of exceptions. The governor has placed a real

priority on public safety and you see increases in both the Department of

Public Safety and the Department of Corrections. Also there is a significant

increase proposed for the Department of Transportation, but remember that

the governor has proposed that in conjunction with significant increases in

the motor fuel tax. The rest of the agencies are not seeing significant

increases in their operations budgets. You are seeing increases in formula

program costs and that is reflected in increased budgets for the Department

of Health and Social Services, and the Department of Administration.

The governor has treated the university very consistently with his overall

budget scheme. The Court system and the Legislature were proposed at

FY94

levels of funding as was the public school system through foundation

funding. I think we have received very equitable treatment from the

governor

under the circumstances the state finds itself in and don't believe we are at a

disadvantage; if anything, it's a plus not to be a target going in by having

significant increases in these kinds of times.

John Dede

I agree with the assumptions also. I think they are very good. I encourage

the enphasis on good and accurate information. I think that really is

essential, especially since in some ways this is another phase of a situation

that started back in 1987. It may help to look at it in that respect. I think

the more information that is discussed and brought forward, the better under

these conditions.

Donna Chantry

I see strong leadership and reasonable assumptions and certainly an

opportunity for all of us to work with you in this endeavor. I have heard that

the legislature is not particularly interesting in seeing people from

Anchorage,

Juneau and Fairbanks because they have had quite adequate briefing this

summer. Do you feel that is still the case, or is it at this point important for

people to begin talking with their legislators?

Alison Algee

I don't think it hurts to contact legislators, but it's best through

correspondence, not in person. What you run into when you show up is a

general sense that there must be excess funds or people would not be

flipping

in and out of town. Legislators themselves are making a real effort this year

to use teleconferencing for budget hearings. This is all in effort to try to

accommodate the costs of trying to get to Juneau and have those hearings

available for more people.

Tomorrow the House Finance Committee starts its first overview of the three

major administrative units and the committee will be hearing from the

chancellors. That hearing will be teleconferenced on a listen only basis to

Fairbanks and Anchorage legislative information offices.

Donna Chantry

President Gagnon and Regent Forrer, do you either of you have comments

about the legislature and the university budget?

Sharon Gagnon

Only to repeat what I said before. The legislature is with us in our efforts

and

is hoping for good results so that how we address all these different issues is

going to be very important to future funding.

Eric Forrer

I'm quite optimistic. I think we have a better stance in the legislature on the

importance of the university than we have had. There's less in-fighting and

across the state battles, and one big point coming out of the Board is

cooperation across the state. It's absolutely vital for that to occur at every

level. The old days of in-house competition and in-house fighting for turf

are

over. With the emphasis on cooperation across the system, we will get a

good

response from the legislature.

Chris Delez

We have the 9th annual student legislative conference coming on the

weekend

of February 18 through 21. We will have workshops for the students on the

morning of the 19th and a general session of the Coalition of Student

Leaders

that afternoon. On Sunday afternoon we will have a legislative forum to

which we have invited all the legislators as well as the Board of Regents.

For

this forum, we want to start off with a presentation provided by Mary Lou

Madden of the Alaska Postsecondary Education Commission and John

Stivers

of the Alaska Science and Technology Foundation. We will have a reaction

panel to that presentation. Byron Mallot will moderate the interaction

between

the reaction panel and the presenters. My thinking in organizing this

conference is that it is very important to present a variety of perspectives to

the legislators on how the university system can be looked at as a source of

ideas, rather than looking at it as a burden, to look at it as something that

can help the state diversify its economy and solve some of the economic

challenges that face the state as a whole.

Donna Chantry

I have been impressed over the last few months with the work the students

are doing and with their presentations. They are really representing us very

well.

John d'Armand

I have to congratulate Chris Delez on the presentations he made to the House

Finance Subcommittee in Juneau, not only Chris but the other students.

President Komisar said Rep. Terry Martin spoke enthusiastically to him

about the presentations in Juneau. I was very much impressed by the

questions the committee asked us, not just to obtain information but

questions that indicated they really were interested in the welfare of the

university.

d. Enhancing the university's public image

Sharon Gagnon

Image follows action. The best way that we can create a good image is to do

what we do extremely well. That would mean on the part of the Board of

Regents to address what needs to be addressed and try to give the sort of

leadership that the university needs and to respond honestly and fairly to

questions, comments or advice about the university. I think for the rest of

the

university, it means that we are providing the best educational services that

we can to the students and to the state of Alaska itself in terms of its needs

from the university. We do that by attracting students to the university, by

keeping them in the university, and by having a good graduation rate and

then that they come out of the university and become productive citizens of

Alaska or wherever they choose to settle.

Eric Forrer

In the five years I've been on the Board, the piece of the public image that I

am aware of that has improved considerably. I came on the Board from a

trade. The people that I work with aren't necessarily directly involved in the

university, and had quite a negative image of the university as a place that

wasted money and didn't get much done. In the five years I have been on the

Board that has changed. I have heard in the last couple of months no

negative comments about the university. The comments I have heard have

all been positive and have come from quite surprising sources. I think that is

a reflection of substance. I think the Board is working on substantial issues

and getting things done. I think the university community has responded,

not the least with the recent coalition between the governance entities which

was an active piece of cooperation. It just falls into my general sense of

optimism that we are doing fairly well in a tumultuous times. Everybody is

effected by the tumult. People appreciate the work it takes to stay afloat, at

least the ones I talk to do, so I don't spend too much time worrying about

public image. I would rather worry about substance and have the public

image come from that.

John Dede

I think that's exactly the right tone. Following up on the student's comments

and Terry Martin's comments, I think students are our best ambassadors and

I certainly hope they keep spreading the good word.

e. Purpose/role of the System Governance Council

Sharon Gagnon

I think this is a role that you are going to be defining yourselves. I've spoken

to you in the past about how effective and forceful it is when one person sits

down at the Board of Regents meeting and says, "I am speaking for the

governance of the university," and is speaking for or against whatever is

before us. When that voice is united, and of course, on occasion there may

be a minority opinion in which we would always be interested if there is one,

when the majority of the people involved in governance come together and

speak with one voice, that is a very effective tool. I hope that as you

organize yourselves that will be an objective: how you can reach consensus

and then how you can express that consensus to the Board of Regents. It

carries a great deal of weight.

Dave Spell

You have heard me before on this issue. I liken this Council somewhat to

what we have on the Fairbanks campus. I see this Council as a coordinating

committee and am rather distressed that it would have any legislative

powers. I would like to see that removed. We have removed legislative

powers from the Alliance of Faculty Senates. I don't see this Council as

being the spokesperson for the other three groups. I would prefer that we

meet in this Council to coordinate and organize our efforts, but would not

want to see this group serve as the spokesperson for the Faculty Alliance,

regardless of whether we are in agreement with the other two groups or not.

I think that we can make a point of being in agreement when speaking

individually to the Board when we speak to the same issue. Like the

Fairbanks campus, when we have issues that involve the faculty, staff and

students, we will act on the resolution or motion individually and then

present a unified front that way without having our coordinating committee

on this campus do it for us.

Bonnie Williams

It seems to me that it has been fairly easy for the Coalition of Student

Leaders, the Alliance of Faculty Senates and the Staff Alliance to get started

and to address issues that are immediately apparent to them. With the

System Governance Council that has not been the case. This is our first

meeting and what we are perhaps is a group in search of a purpose. I am

wondering if the purpose hasn't presented itself to us, at least the purpose for

this year--our grim financial outlook, whether we come out at zero, minus or

plus FY94 levels.

We have later in the agenda a thing called FATFREE. The statewide

administration is forming a task force comprised of representation all across

the board. That group is to seek ideas for saving money, for cutting, for

becoming more efficient. I think that this Council could serve in the

capacity of coordinating and working with that task force and expanding

where they get those ideas from. I think we ought to grab that as our bone

and run with it.

At the other end of how to live within whatever budget we wind up with is

how to ensure as big a budget as we possibly can by working with the

legislature, with this group serving as a coordinating and educational entity.

Donna Chantry

You have an excellent point. The reason the System Governance Council

hasn't met until now is to give the other groups time to get up and running. I

would totally agree with you in making the budget a Council priority.

John Dede

Aside from the specific tasks of the Council, getting back to Dave's

comment, I also am very impressed with how the Alliances and the Coalition

are establishing themselves, getting up to speed and actually accomplishing

some things. Just from my rather brief history with governance and of

observing systemwide governance, I agree that that progress shouldn't

necessarily be impeded by another legislative entity. At the same time, I

personally feel very strongly that there needs to be some place where the

Alliances and the Coalition can get together and talk. That currently is not

happening. I don't care if the Council is legislative or not. I think the

communicating function and the coordinating functions are by far the most

important ones. That's what I would hope to see this Council as being and

hopefully that would be seen as being a serious function within the

governance structure.

Sharon Gagnon

I would like to echo John's remarks. The idea of the alliances and the

Coalition is excellent in terms of the unity they establish across the system in

those special fields. I think that there has to be the next step and that is that

there is some coordination and communication between the staff, the faculty

and the student groups. There will be some issues that will be more relevant

to all three groups and some that may be more specific to groups but that

doesn't mean that the students shouldn't be aware of what the faculty

concerns are, and the staff should know what the other two groups are

thinking and so forth. And I can only repeat, and you may reject this idea, if

you all come together with one voice on an issue, it is extremely effective,

and it depends on how effective you want to be as to how you want to

structure yourselves.

John Dede

I would be interested in having a student perspective on this if possible.

Chris Delez

I tend to agree with Dave Spell's comments about having a certain amount of

autonomy remaining with the three constituent groups and having the

Council be more of a coordinating body.

Donna Chantry

I think we've hit on something that I believe as we try to establish this group

was very important: the emphasis of this body being one of coordination and

for communicating. I would not see this group trying to be a spokesperson

for the other groups. I think that Bonnie's proposals about what we do this

year are important goals.

Dave Spell

I would imagine it could be somewhat confusing to the Board of Regents to

have a potential for four voices but I ask for their indulgence in that. On the

Fairbanks campus, when the Fairbanks Assembly split up five or six years

ago, we split into single groups much the same as what we have here and

have a coordinating committee. We address issues individually and then we

can look at these collectively. We actually have some committees that

function under our governance coordinating committee, and these are

committees that deal with issues that are common to all of us such as

intermural activities, the library, the computing center, etc. I see this as a

function for the Council, but again, I just ask the Board's indulgence that

they listen to the other groups as spokespersons for the constituents and not

look exclusively to a single voice to arbitrate all this.

Eric Forrer

There is a little piece of magic in this business about insisting on cooperation

across the system but that doesn't mean we are looking for a single voice

because the individual spirit and the individual abilities of different sites and

different areas of endeavor within the university have to be preserved

somehow inside this overall emphasis on cooperation. I will not insist on a

single voice.

Sharon Gagnon

I would like to come back to the point, however. I don't intend to insist on a

single voice, but what I am having a sense of here, is exactly the contrary to

everything I said at the beginning of the meeting. What I am getting a sense

of is people carving things up into little pieces that are their own interest.

What I am saying is that that's not going to be healthy or good for the

university. If the Faculty Alliance is for across-the-system communication,

coordination and understanding, I think that's an excellent idea. If the idea is

that we want to be our own thing; we want to speak for ourselves; we don't

want to have to agree with other people; if that is the feeling behind this,

then it flies absolutely in the face of the kind of unity and the kind of

thinking that I am thinking is going to start taking place within the

university, and that is thinking about how we all do this together. So I

would like to make that statement again: how you structure yourselves again

is how you feel you can be the most effective. I'm just sensing the

continuation of a mentality we are hoping will disappear, in terms of "we

want our own little place in the sun and we don't want anybody else messing

with it."

Dave Spell

You make a good point there. What drove this system that we have right

now is that there are constituencies that felt they were not being served by

the General Assembly. I will agree with you and admit that it is going to be

a fantastic dance that we all do in a manner of speaking, to make sure that

we all can treat the issues that are most important to us. For instance, in the

case of the faculty, we are looking at faculty productivity and compensation

but we are also involved in the resource issues across the university, so as

long as we can all look to the areas and make sure that the areas that we

have the most vested interest in are addressed by us and still coordinate and

cooperate, this is a fantastic little dance and one that we are going to have to

pay close attention to.

John d'Armand

Dave did emphasize the point that he and many of us would like for the role

of the System Governance Council to be one of communication. As he said,

too, in his original presentation, the Faculty Alliance did not want the power

of legislation. That was formed to increase the communications among the

faculties of the three major academic units. Now, if we all came to the

Board, as individuals in the faculty, it would be a chaotic situation. Even to

come to you as individual campuses would not be our most efficient

presentation. The Faculty Alliance has been established so that we can

deliberate among ourselves first and not waste your time, and then make a

presentation directly to the president and directly to the Board of Regents.

But we would also not like for that to be diluted by having to go through a

coordinating body, even though that coordinating body, the one in which we

sit today, is a wonderful medium of communication and of coordination.

John Dede

I'm not convinced we are necessarily talking at cross purposes here because I

think we all agree on the role of this Council, and I think we have a general

consensus agreement perhaps on its lack of legislative role in the entire

governance system. However, I think, if I can paraphrase Sharon's point, I

think that the president and the regents would be very interested in what the

discussions of this Council may be and therefore, as a technical sidelight, I

think that may help to clarify things. If we agree on the role of the Council,

perhaps if the minutes are taken in such a way that our discussions here at

the Council can bring forward the various viewpoints, even if we don't

necessarily reach consensus, I think the regents and the president would find

it very interesting just to read those minutes.

Sharon Gagnon

Actually, I do read your minutes, and I do find them very informative. Pat

very nicely puts them on e-mail for me so I do read your minutes. I can't say

that all of the regents have access to e-mail and can do that, but it's very

helpful.

John Dede

That would avoid the issue of consensus or legislation or anything like that,

and would emphasize the communications aspect most of all.

Donna Chantry

I understand, President Gagnon, the concern you have and I think speaking

hopefully for most of us, this has been a very long and difficult process and

what I see right now are great strides being taken toward the kinds of things

you are talking about. I think perhaps from a more outside perspective, it

looks pretty much like we are not in agreement but I think we are actually

working more and more toward that working together and being fairly

cohesive. Just to ease people's minds, the last time I spoke to the Board, I

spoke only about General Assembly things or system governance things and

left the representatives of the alliances and the Coalition to speak to their

own

matters. But I think what counts here is that we are actually in a period of

resolving and coming together and really making it work.

Chris Delez

The thought that keeps occurring to me after listening to the discussions is

the need to find a balance between unity and individualism, and that should

be what this particular body focuses in on; trying to maintain a certain

degree of unity among the alliances and the Coalition and at the same time,

retaining a certain amount of individualism as well. Either extreme would

be harmful.

Dave Spell

It is my understanding that we have deferred the constitution to the next

meeting. Then I would ask that we carefully look at the constitution because

I am going to offer some changes to the constitution that will reflect what I

feel is the substance of our discussions here. I would ask you all to do that.

Donna Chantry

That's exactly why I wanted to hold off on that, so we have time to gather

information, get it to Pat and get it out for review.

f. Other issues

There were no other issues for the round table discussion.

4. Action items

a. Elections

John Dede asked if it was possible to elect officers without a constitution.

Ivey responded that everybody else did. Donna Chantry said she was asked

by the president and the Board of Regents to chair the System Governance

Council for this year but would certainly welcome nominations from anyone

for the chairmanship of the Council and then also there is a need to elect a

vice chair.

MOTION: (Moved by Dede, seconded by Enochs, withdrawn by Dede)

"The System Governance Council elects Donna Chantry as chair of the

Council. This action is effective January 31, 1994."

Colin Read said he was not opposed to electing Chantry but thought since

there was as yet no constitution elections were a bit premature. Read would

rather see the structure remain as it is until the role and responsibilities of

the Council were decided. Spell concurred, saying that the Council was

functioning fine right now and since it looked like the Council was going to

elect Chantry as chair anyway, to keep it like it is at least until the next

meeting or until the end of the year since the year ends in June.

b. F.A.T. F.R.E.E. - Williams

Bonnie Williams

FATFREE stands for the Financial Alternatives Task Force to Re-engineer

Efficiency and Effectiveness. The original name was Resource Alternatives

Task Force which was a little to close to RATS for her comfort. Williams

referenced the letters the alliance and Coalition spokespersons received

requesting nominations from which he would appoint faculty, staff and

student representatives. Brian Rogers will chair the task force and Alison

Algee will be on it, the three vice chancellors of administrative services and

three deans. Spell said he thought the president asked for up to three of each

from each campus. The Fairbanks faculty senate gave him one name.

Williams said the Staff Alliance sent a long list of names. In 1986, back in

the

days when the university was in peril of bankruptcy, there was a similar

committee established. That committee collected an enormous number of

ideas from faculty, staff, students, and a large number of those ideas were

evaluated and put in place. This FATFREE task force would be the locus

where all the ideas would come in, get sorted out and maybe sent to the

experts to find out if they are efficient or effective or not. The task force

members don't have to be experts; they are sorters and collectors.

John Dede suggests that the Council take this on as its big issue for the year,

helping the task force at the communications point, at the coordinating point,

at the cheerleading point, going out and asking people to start thinking about

things.

At the other end, the Council should keep the damage to a minimum with the

legislature, so that what the Council focuses on for the remainder of the year

is the university budget. And it does so in a systemwide perspective without

particular priorities or prejudices or anything; just trying to help the whole.

Dave Spell

I think it's a good idea that we become involved, except that I would say that

we are already involved; that is, the staff, the faculty, and the students have

already nominated representatives to this task force. I would see the role for

the Council as coordinating with the other three bodies and give ideas to the

other three bodies so that they can put the ideas up. I am leery of this group

in some sense receiving some sort of stature that will detract or

disinfranchise or dilute the other three groups. I think together we can

operate really well. I'm not trying to steal anybody's thunder or anything

like that. I just think it's better if the people focus on us that way rather than

one group.

Bonnie Williams

I disagree with you totally and absolutely because the task force is not

intended to communicate with alliances or councils. It is intended to

communicate with anyone who has ideas. If we the Council present ideas,

they should go direct. I don't see us presenting ideas. I see us

communicating something, anything that helps people to think about ideas

that they then send to the task force, not to the Council, not to the Staff

Alliance, the Faculty Alliance or the Coalition, but straight to the task force.

Dave Spell

All of us in this group are in the alliances and the Coalition. The ideas that

we come up with will have already presumably been within the Alliances

just by the fact that we have already participated in the alliances. It seems

that we are redundant in that sense. People are going to look at us and say

we have a faculty group, a staff group and a student group, now we have

another group that we are going to feed ideas to. Tell me how we are going

to operate.

Bonnie Williams.

You, a faculty member, are not being asked to feed ideas to the Council.

You are being told in a newsletter or on the vax or in whatever means, that

there is this problem and that this task force is looking for these ideas, and if

you have any good ones, send them to whatever their network e-mail box is,

not to the Council. The Council is only communicating.

Dave Spell

Then what is the purpose of this group?

Bonnie Williams

It's to communicate the need.

Colin Read

I think that the various alliances and the Coalition were asked to make

nominations to this resource task force, and presumably they ask for

nominations to this resource task force because they want this

representation. When we appointed these people to this committee, it was

with the understanding that they would be feeding back the process and the

results from that committee to the alliances and various constituent groups

so everyone knows what is going on. If it was the president's goal to work

with the Council, then the Council would have been asked to solicit

nominations. I just see the Council as trying to find a niche for itself when

the resource task force stands well on its own through its representatives.

John Dede

Aside from the question of FATFREE, I'd like to get a little more global and

ask the faculty members if they see any kind of a proactive role for this

Council at all, or if you only see for it a reactive role.

Dave Spell

I don't see proactive or reactive. I see coordinating and communicating.

John Dede

One of the forms of coordination is reaction where the alliances and the

Coalition bring forward things and lay them on the table, and then the

Council discusses them. That's what I look on as being a reactive role. I am

wondering do you see anywhere that this Council, in a non-legislative

capacity, can initiate or do a constructive thing on its own.

Colin Read

I think there are certain issues that the Council can legitimately handle that

are perhaps not the direct purview of any of the other groups. We spoke in

our

October meeting about fund-raising and alumni issues. I certainly would

agree that this Council would be useful there. The second thing is, getting

back to Regent Gagnon's point, if there is an issue where all the groups reach

consensus, it would serve us well to have some group, perhaps the Council,

amplifying this. I think the worry is that when there are differences of

opinion, those differences need to come out from the various constituent

groups and if there is no consensus on the Council, I don't think we should

be putting the Council's view forward. That's what everyone's concern is.

To give you an example, I think there is some concern about a fourth student

representative on this Council and the faculty responded with a request for a

fourth faculty member on the Council. The reason why there is so much

nervousness about it is because people feel that there is legislative authority

within this Council and it is threatening to them. It need not be.

John d'Armand

Let me take that one step further. On the nervousness issue, I actually see

that the idea of a fourth faculty representative, and the intent is to have one

from rural campuses, as an idea that was actually inspired by the student idea

for a fourth representative. I don't view it with fear. I view it as a good idea

because the faculty of our rural campuses really are not represented. I also

look at item 5 the information items in an attempt to answer your question

John, the governance transition reports and the other reports. I will give a

report, for instance on the sorts of things the UAS Faculty Senate is dealing

with. Now I'm not asking for approval of these nor expect opposition, but

they are information items. Perhaps staff groups and student groups may be

interested in the same items of which they would not be aware most likely if

we didn't have this forum in which to present them. I certainly enjoy hearing

about the things that the rest of the groups are working with. I agree with

Sharon. I'm really disappointed that she felt we were not thinking as a

university-wide community. A lot of focus comes down on the faculty when

there is a shortfall of money. I spoke to President Komisar yesterday about

the productivity issue and asked him whether he thought we needed to

produce more credits, for example, even though he is sympathetic to

research and the other duties of faculty. Unequivocally and without

hesitation, he said yes, that he definitely feels we need to produce more.

And the onus generally falls on the faculty to produce more credits. We do

get a little concerned. That's something I would like to discuss university-

wide through this forum--how can all of us together increase the productivity

of the university community. I don't know whether you view it this way.

I'm a bit paranoid but whenever I hear productivity, I feel that it's directed at

the faculty. We are the ones who teach the students, therefore we are the

ones who need to generate more credits. I feel that productivity is a general

university-wide thing that should be discussed. Maybe that's one example of

subjects that could be discussed by this group and about which

recommendations might be made.

Bonnie Williams:

I would like to read you from Article V of the constitution, "Responsibilities

and Roles."

"The primary responsibility and role of the System Governance

Council is to provide counsel to the President and Board of Regents in

matters including, but not limited to, the following: policies and

procedures for, and participating in, the university budget process;"

That's what FATFREE is about: the budget.

"the framing of long range plans; "

If you change the overall structure or how things are doing, you affect the

long range plans.

"university development; "

Again, you are coming back to the budget. You can't develop without the

money.

"enhancing the university's public image and educating the public;"

That's what I was asking us to do; talk to the legislature and provide a lot of

education on FATFREE, etc.

"and other matters affecting the general welfare of the university and

its educational purposes and effectiveness. The Council may seek

input from other governance groups on issues within its

responsibilities, but is not bound by the input."

We had a lot of discussion and a lot of argument and finally agreed on this

paragraph setting aside these responsibilities for the Council. We were all

highly concerned that the Council would do anything at all that would

remotely impinge upon the student coalition, the faculty alliance or the staff

alliance. Now when a task comes along which fits the description in the

paragraph, you are all dragging your feet. You don't want the Council to do

its responsibilities. It may be a question of proactive and reactive, but if all

we do has nothing to do with budget process or anything else in the Council

responsibilities; if all we do is tell each other what our groups are doing, we

do not merit a budget, nor an existence, if that's the only purpose that we

serve.

John d'Armand

I appreciate what Bonnie said and almost preface my remarks by saying that

I need to think more about this. I didn't mean to say that was all we should

do, but that was an example of the sort of thing that we can do. Otherwise, I

thoroughly agree with Bonnie.

Donna Chantry

I would like to state at this point, as Bonnie has said, the whole point to this

is to gather additional information to provide as the process goes along, as

the president puts together the task force. The task force has a tremendous

job to do and this body, given its charge to work on budget, can provide

some general information. I can see it going out to the alliances and the

coalition. I see no threat to anybody as far as going forward with something

that the Council shouldn't go forward with. It's something we've done in the

past. It was done in 1986. Clearly, to me, this is something that is an

important function. We can provide a means of getting information and

providing it.

Dave Spell

What's the point. What is really the point? I look at the members of this

committee. We are all in alliances or the coalition. What's the point? The

alliances are already doing this. Do we have some idea that we as a group

will have some other vision or task that we don't do individually. I don't

understand. If we coordinate, then the alliances and the coalition will do it,

won't they? What's the point of having another group now feeding stuff into

the system so people say, "Who's that group?"

Colin Read

Let me put out one question and maybe it will help us come together on this.

Would we agree that if we on the Council cannot reach a consensus about

issues that may be put forward, that we simply don't come out with an

opinion on it.

John Dede

This is where I spoke when Regent Gagnon was here about having our

minutes done in such a way as to reflect our discussions, and if we don't

come out with a measured opinion, a consensus opinion or whatever, at least

we have a record of the discussion which I think can be very, very

enlightening.

Bonnie Williams

To answer your question, Colin, in the constitution there is one item that

requires consensus; that is a change in membership. All other items, if we

are going to take a position, make a motion or resolution, is simple majority.

Colin Read

Then nobody could have a problem with the Council if every opinion or

resolution requires consensus. I'm suggesting that if we had consensus on

every resolution or motion then obviously nobody could have any issue with

the Council.

Bonnie Williams

You would have to change the constitution to do that.

Dave Spell

Well, we are going to change the constitution. That's the point to be made

here. Twice, we've called forth the constitution. The constitution hasn't

been accepted, so there are changes to be made in that constitution to reflect

the discussions we are having here today.

John d'Armand

I always worry about a requirement for consensus because that can give one

individual an enormous amount of power in stymying the group.

Bonnie Williams

We had consensus in the General Assembly. We had a lot of problems

because of it. One of the problems was that we had to have a consensus.

Consequently, for two years, we had paralysis. We could not get consensus

on anything, I mean literally anything. There is no point in having a group if

the group cannot agree to approve the minutes.

Colin Read

That's was a much more loaded scene on the form of the General Assembly.

It was the only representation for any views whatsoever. All I'm saying is if

we can use this Council simply to amplify the areas where all three groups

can agree, that's great. But to act as an arbitrator between the three groups

seems to be what people are finding offensive.

Dave Spell

Consider the scenario where for example, the faculty have an opinion or

solution, and staff and students disagree. Then we come to the Council and

staff and students and Council disagree. Then we go to the Board of Regents

and the faculty lays forth an argument for their position and the staff and

students and Council all disagree.

Bonnie Williams

I think you have not looked at section C. Article V which says what the

responsibilities are. This Council could only disagree with the staff alliance,

the faculty alliance or the student coalition on budget matters. The Council

would have to disagree by a majority on a matter of budget or a matter of

long term planning. The other half of what the Council does is education

and public image, some coordination. There's nothing to disagree about

except you could say they are doing a bad job or a good job.

Dave Spell

There are very few issues in this system that aren't budget or long range

planning. Anything we do is budget or long range planning.

Colin Read

Let's look at an example. What if the students were opposed to a tuition rate

increase and for some reason the faculty and staff believe a tuition rate

increase was in order. The students should have the ability to take their

views forward in an undiluted manner.

Bonnie Williams

What's stopping them from doing that? We set up a governance structure

that allows them to do exactly that, undiluted.

Colin Read

I haven't been able to make my point yet. If we bring it to the Council and

the Council simply said, well, the students are outnumbered, the students are

going to feel very disinfranchised at the Council and will wonder about their

participation. Why even get ourselves into that bind. I don't see it as being

at all productive or necessary.

Donna Chantry

I would like us to go back and just look at the item we are talking about

rather than getting bogged down any more on matters that actually are pretty

constitutional.

John Dede

Do people think that this Council can play a coordinative role with the

FATFREE issue?

Colin Read

I don't see any reason to rule that out.

Dave Spell

I think it could. Again, Fairbanks campus has been at this a bit longer, this

idea of having the three groups separate and then have a coordinating

committee, so I can see this happening here as long as we are willing to

participate and share our information, and that is the strength and the

weakness of the Fairbanks campus governance coordinating committee.

You have to have participation in it. You have to have a belief in the

structure or it won't work. You have to go to the meetings and participate. I

notice we are missing a number of participants here today. I came even

though I have a class in another half hour. But I think that it can work. I

think we don't have an example of it working because none of our alliances

have actually worked with this particular resource committee yet. I think

once we get on the ball, we start getting some ideas, we realize the ideas we

get have a global impact, it will be important to bring those to the Council

table and share it, have some dialogue and discussion at this one level and

get back to the alliances and then work on it that way.

Donna Chantry

It would be my perception that we need to give it a chance to work because

we have not had that at this time. We do have a draft motion if we are ready

to consider it.

Bonnie Williams

Instead of the draft motion, I propose that the Council take as its major task

for the remainder of the fiscal year the budget for FY95, coordination with

FATFREE, and enhancement of that budget to whatever extent we can in

relation with the legislature. It's a broad topical thing. I don't want to see us

working as a staff group to the task force so I'm not proposing the draft

motion as written.

MOTION: (Moved by Williams, seconded by Dede,

passed with one objection)

The System Governance Council moves to take as its major tasks for the

remainder of the fiscal year, 1) the budget for FY95 and enhancement of that

budget to whatever possible in relation with the legislature, and 2)

coordination with the FATFREE task force. This action is effective January

31, 1994."

c. System Governance Council constitution

Reference 4.c.3 Governance policy and regulations effective

7/1/94

Latest System Governance Council

constitution draft

The Coalition of Student Leaders requests an additional student seat on the

System Governance Council to represent the "small density" or rural school

students. The Alliance of Faculty Senates endorsed this, adding its request

for a fourth faculty seat to represent the "small density" or rural school

faculty with the caveat that these rural seats rotate between the MAUs. This

would also give the faculty, the staff, and the students an equal number of

seats.

John Dede moved the student amendment for the purposes of discussion.

John Dede

I unfortunately feel very lonely here at UAA right now. I'm not sure where

everyone else is. But I don't see anything wrong with this proposal.

Dave Spell

Personally I don't see anything wrong with it either, especially if we are not

legislative. The more voices, it would seem to me, the better. If the students

feel that the lower density campuses need input, fine, as long as we don't get

into any kind of contentious issues to where it is four people against eight

people or whatever.

Bonnie Williams: I object to the amendments. The original structure calls

for the four MAUs with specific named representation from each of the

MAUs. The students proposal talks students as a group, not as MAU.

Consequently, it changes the entire structure. Immediately following it is

the faculty proposal which I guess goes hand in hand: if the students are

going to have four, then the faculty are going to have four.

Karen Enochs

Does that mean staff need a rural representative, too?

Bonnie Williams

In that case, the Statewide Administration Assembly would like

representation from our Anchorage and Juneau contingents. Come on. We

set it up to be on an MAU basis and we argued endlessly about the numbers,

but we were trying to keep it small. You are warping what that design was.

We are almost back at square one. It would be nice to have as many people

as possible on the Council to have as many ideas as possible but it doesn't

work with the original structure we set up and it absolutely doesn't work

with the budget we have available to us. Part of the use of that budget is for

all of us to come together face to face. The more people we have, the less

face to face meetings. And our budget is being squeezed. I don't know if

you all missed the point of that budget status report, but our budget is being

squeezed.

John d' Armand

Let me ask a question. We have, as a matter of policy, in the Faculty

Alliance the obligation at UAS to elect one of our three representatives from

Sitka or Ketchikan. Is it feasible that the student coalition, should it want a

rural representative might make one of its Fairbanks representatives, for

example, from a rural site?

Chris Delez

I don't think the Fairbanks people would like that very much at all. The

whole idea of the fourth seat for the students was to bring in the campuses

that thought they were being left out. Originally, we were thinking we

wanted to add a fourth seat for a rural representative. The people at Mat-Su

and Kenai thought their interests were the same as those of the smaller urban

campuses and that a rural representative would not be able to adequately

represent both schools like Kenai and Mat Su and schools like Chukchi and

Northwest. So, I proposed the idea of thinking in terms of density, rather

than thinking in terms of regionalism, thinking in terms of density because

of there is one characteristic that defines the differences in various campuses

more than any other, it's the difference in student population. So, we are

looking to have one representative for low density schools of less than 1,000

students, one from the medium density schools between 1,000 and 5,000

students and two for the high density schools with a student enrollment of

over 5,000 students. We felt that the interests of the students at the different

types of campuses would be better served through that type of

representation. It was necessary in order to prevent some of the student

governments from dropping out of the coalition.

John d'Armand

I understand your arguments but it takes us back to the old CCREE

philosophy to an extent. It also suggests to me that the rural campuses in the

major administrative units which we referred to as "Fairbanks" would be

possibly represented separate from the urban campus of Fairbanks. Then we

would no longer have a representative of the major administrative unit. We

would have a representative of the urban campus and another representative

of the rural campuses. That's why I suggested the possibility of selecting a

representative for this major administrative unit which might come from a

rural campus. That certainly would be a message that you consider those

rural campuses a part of this major administrative unit. But I see the

dilemma and understand it, because it is quite likely that the representative

would be chosen from this campus. I should hope that were he so chosen, he

would represent his constituents throughout the unit, though.

Chris Delez

The only thing I can add to that is that if you do not want to give the students

a fourth seat, it could very well fragment the Coalition, and that would be a

shame, I think.

John d'Armand

I certainly don't want to do that, but I recall the discussions to which Bonnie

refers about the size of this body and it took quite some effort to keep it low.

I think no matter how large it gets, unless you have every individual in the

entire university community on it, everybody is not going to be represented

as well as some would like. I wonder why it really would fragment the

Coalition, though? Is there no other way around that?

Chris Delez

No one really knows for sure what this Council is going to be, what

authority it will have. So there are students at some of the campuses that

feel that if they are not adequately represented, they will, in fact, not be

represented. I don't feel that the Council is going to take on so much

authority that their representation is going to be undermined, but some of the

students at some of the campuses have the perception that it will.

John Dede

One possibility would be, and this could be for our discussion on the

constitution, is perhaps setting up some ex-officio seats or something along

those lines, (That implies a voting relationship which I don't want to get into

right now.) but where you have Council members as observers or ways to

input to the Council without necessarily having a seat at the table.

Colin Read

I guess I agree with the students that if there is a perception that they need a

different form of representation on what I see as a coordinating committee,

then we should offer that to them. Perception is 90% of reality. With regard

to the issue of the budget, the marginal costs of having more participation if

we simply do audio or video conferences is zero and I don't believe it's a

good idea to have face to face meetings for this group, especially since I

think video conferences are very useful and unless there is some other reason

to have face to face meetings as the Faculty Alliance is doing in Juneau to

coordinate visits with legislators, there is no other reason to have face to face

meetings. I think in these times of budget scrutiny, I think it's just simply a

poor idea. So I think the idea of budget ramifications precluding extra

participation doesn't seem to me to be valid.

John d'Armand

Just a reminder that video conferencing is available only to the three cities of

Juneau, Anchorage and Fairbanks. Should you have a rural representative,

that representative would have to join us some other way.

John Dede

If I can follow up on Colin's thought, I agree with you; that is if students

perceive that their voices are not being heard, that's an important

consideration. However, is there a perception that rural faculty voices are

not being heard through the Alliance and that is why you are requesting an

additional faculty member?

Colin Read

Actually there is a real sensitivity of rural faculty. Rural faculty feel quite

disenfranchised in the existing governance structure at all levels. That's

something that we at UAF wrestle with frequently. We have developed

special committees just to have that rural voice be heard and it's extremely

difficult.

John d'Armand

We can rectify that somewhat at the Faculty Alliance level, because we have

three representatives from each major academic unit. I wonder if the student

coalition is doing the same thing, rather than actually....am I

misunderstanding this? I think maybe I am.

Colin Read

I guess my point is, I don't know if we really need to understand why the

students feel that they need another representative. All we really need to do

is say this is a valid perception. If that's how they feel legitimately, then I

am willing to accept it.

John d'Armand

How many representatives are there on the Student Coalition itself. That's

what I am comparing the Faculty Alliance to, where we have three from

UAS and one of those has to come from Ketchikan or Sitka. What about the

Coalition itself.

Chris Delez

Officially I am not sure. I just know that at our audioconferences it's pretty

much whoever shows up for the meetings.

Pat Ivey

At a minimum, the Coalition consists of the presidents of all the student

governments, a minimum of 12 plus the spokesperson who is the student

regent for a total of 13.

John d'Armand

There is another theory. There is a student regent who is a pretty powerful

person actually. He's given a lot of respect on the Board of Regents and a lot

of attention and there is no faculty regent. So that is pretty good

representation right there. But that's still another issue. But couldn't you

find your rural representation through your network rather than here?

Chris Delez

Theoretically, we certainly could, but as you said, we get back to that issue

of perception. What I am saying is that the fourth seat is necessary for

students in order to preserve the Coalition. The Coalition was falling apart.

We had one student government completely and unanimously object to the

Coalition until we came up with the idea of asking for this fourth seat.

John d'Armand

It's not that I don't want students to be represented but it looks as though

they were also after an undue amount of power. If they can get their

representation through your network, why do they need it here? The

faculty and the staff didn't ask for that.

Chris Delez

They didn't feel they could get their representation. It's not a matter of them

trying to get more representation. They didn't think they were getting a fair

share to begin with.

John d'Armand

Do you not give them a fair share in the student network?

Chris Delez

You have to understand that between the campuses in the system, there is a

certain amount of animosity and distrust as I am sure you are aware. That

has certainly filtered down to the student level. That has been one of the

difficulties in organizing the Coalition right from the start, getting past that

distrust. I think we have made some strides in that direction, but there is

still some remnants of those feelings of distrust lingering around. In the long

run, perhaps people would feel that they are getting adequate representation

through the Coalition, but right now, people are just not sure what this

System Governance Council is going to be all about; what sort of authority it

will have. So they want to make sure that they have equal representation on

this Council.

John d'Armand

But the Council is not a legislative body.

Chris Delez

But we don't know that yet.

John d'Armand

But the faculty don't have rural representation, and the staff don't, and I

haven't heard any feelings of distrust there. No one from the staff has

mentioned distrust among the campuses. No one from the faculty either.

Chris Delez

I would be surprised if it's not there, but I am a student. I don't know what's

going on with the faculty and staff. As a student, I certainly would have no

objection if the staff were asking for a rural seat and the faculty were asking

for a rural seat. We are talking about a difference between nine people on

the Council and twelve. I don't think three more is that big a deal.

Bonnie Williams

It's ten members on the Council. You are changing it from ten to thirteen.

And when you throw in the faculty you change it from ten to sixteen. And

when you throw in the staff, you change it from 10 to 19; all meeting to

coordinate for no purpose.

John d'Armand

Not to belittle your request, Chris. I don't mean for the discussion to become

facetious but I still think that maybe there is a need for more information

within the student network so this distrust would be abolished some way

there. I would hate to see this body grow. I would like the faculty to have a

rural representative too, but I would rather do without and keep the Council

small. I wouldn't feel that way if I didn't feel that you should have that

rural representation within your own student network.

Karen Cummins

I have to comment on something that Karen Enochs brought up. I do agree

with what she said about having a rural staff person; however, I also agree

about not having too many people on the Council. The vice president for the

UAS Classified Employee Association is an employee in Ketchikan. We are

very conscious of the fact of keeping Ketchikan and Sitka involved in what

is happening with the Classified Association from the big campus of Juneau.

Since Rose Walker is the vice president of the Classified Association, it's

incredible the amount of participation and not feeling that they are just out

there somewhere that they do feel that they do have a voice and do have a

say. So I must voice that opinon to be absolutely clear about what the UAS

staff people do.

Chris Delez

I might add, and I know some people might not appreciate this, but it may be

even more important for the students to have four seats than the other groups

and that may be because of the transient nature of the students. As staff and

faculty, you are quite likely going to be here next year and the year after.

I'm only going to be involved with this for three or four more months. My

other fellow student government leaders are going to be leaving soon, too, so

we need to have something in place for the students that come up behind us

to draw them in and make them feel that they are an equal part of the system

governance.

John d'Armand

But isn't that what the student network is for?

Chris Delez

That's true, but if it doesn't become well established, it could fall apart.

Karen Enochs

I guess what I am worried about is setting a precedent here. If these students

are saying that if we don't get our voice in the Council, we are going to drop

out of the Coalition, if we allow them to do this power play, aren't we setting

an awful precedent. If we let them get away with this, can't any other group

do the same thing? It just seems like we are setting ourselves up for

something.

Bonnie Williams

Your point is very well taken; however, you are a couple of years too late.

We have been trying to govern and trying to craft constitutions, etc., by

blackmail as group after group says I won't play if my terms aren't met. So

this particular student group didn't invent this wheel; they are just turning the

same wheel. I'm getting awfully tired of trying to govern by blackmail.

Chris Delez

I don't feel the students are trying to blackmail anybody or pull off any kind

of power play. I'm just trying to keep the Coalition together because I think

it's done a lot of good for students so far and I think it has the potential to do

a lot more good for the students. Like I said, it's a perception problem at the

present time concerning what this System Governance Council is going to be

all about. The sooner that the purpose of this Council is well established, the

sooner that perception can be corrected.

Karen Enochs

Is a part of this perception a lack of trust. I'm getting the feeling that the low

density groups don't trust the Coalition to bring forward their concerns. I get

the feeling from some of our rural staff members that they would really like

to have a say, but they place their trust in us to bring their views forward and

we do that. If it's a lack of trust, then I think that's a student coalition

problem that they have to deal with; it isn't a problem that the Council has to

deal with.

Colin Read

But isn't the response of the student coalition that they are taking extra steps

to make sure the rural students are represented?

John d'Armand

I think they need to take extra steps to ensure that the rural view is

represented by their representatives on the Coalition.

Donna Chantry

This is obviously a topic that is going to take more discussion. In the

interest of time, I would like to suggest that we add it to our agenda for next

time, after we've had a little more time to consider.

John Dede

If I can make a suggestion, perhaps Chris for the student coalition could

bring forward a justification for why the rural view should be represented on

the Council. I think one of the things that derailed us was the discussion of

how the student coalition is being blackmailed by some of their members. I

think we need to focus on if the rural view is important to have on this

Council, that's what we should decide one way or the other.

Colin Read

Also, this whole question wouldn't be so loaded if we had a better

understanding of what the Council is up to and for that matter would be

more willing to accept extra student representatives, and at the same time the

extra student representative might not be so needed if the Council isn't

perceived as such a loaded group. I think we need some discussion on what

this Council is going to do before we resolve issues like representation and

the constitution.

John d'Armand: I guess some of you will know what I mean when I say I'm

getting awfully weary and it's certainly not because of Chris's motion, but

I'm getting awfully weary of discussions about how we are going to work

and how we are going to organize. We went through that with the General

Assembly Executive Committee the whole time I was on it and we discussed

little else. We got nothing substantive done. I would just love to get on and

make this university do something positive as a result of our efforts.

Chris Delez

There seems to be a perception that if we add the fourth seat for the students,

the staff and the faculty, we will have all these people around the table and

won't get anything done. Look at today. Do we have a bunch of people

around the table as it is? As it is, not everyone can attend a meeting.

Perhaps four seats for each of the different groups will result in a little bit

more participation.

Donna Chantry

I think we've started some good discussion that will bear more discussion at

the next meeting or two. In the interest of time, would it be agreeable to put

this item on the agenda again to discuss this issue.

e. Meeting calendar, balance of the year

MOTION: Moved by Williams, seconded by d'Armand, passed

Monday, February 28, 1994, 9:00-12:00 noon, via videoconference

Monday, March 28, 1994, 9:00-12:00 noon, via videoconference Fairbanks,

Anchorage and Juneau campuses with audio hookups to outreach sites

Monday, April 25, 1994, 9:00-11:00am, via audioconference

Monday, May 16, 1994, 9:00-11:00am, via audioconference

Monday, June 20, 1994, 9:00-11:00am, via audioconference

6. Other items of concern

a. Date/time of next meeting

Monday, January 28, 1994 beginning at 9:00am via video conference.

b. Agenda items for next meeting

* the Council budget

* definitions of cooperation and coordination (written)

* the Council constitution (discussion)

* reports on governance transition (written)

* local governance reports (written)

Council members should submit written agenda items to Pat Ivey

by June 21. If it's not in by the 21st, the Council can't talk about

it on the 28th.

7. Comments

There were no other comments

8. Adjourn

The meeting adjourned at 11:10am.